Scotland Yard and Growling Dogs: Follow Ups and Business Checks, Hey Chaplain's Fifth Anniversary, w/ Steve Keogh - Bonus Ep 51

This episode marks our fifth anniversary where we go back and do follow ups and business checks, checking in on some of our past guests to get updates.  This year I built the episode around an interview I recently had with Steve Keogh, the retired Scotland Yard murder detective who was on the show a few years ago. We also hear a behind-the-scenes canine for Brotherhood for the Fallen.

Links and resources:

• Steve Keogh - Ep 030, Ep 061: https://stevekeogh.com
• Jason Marsman - Bonus Ep 50: Brotherhood for the Fallen https://www.brotherhoodnyc.org
• Jim Sutterby - Ep 003, 007, et al.
• Richard Breshears - Ep 101
• Ryan Miller - 023, 056, 097, et al.
• Shawn McGee - Ep 069

Music is by Chris Haugen and by Jeremy Korpas and Rick Barry ("Care is Heavy")

Hey Chaplain Podcast Bonus Episode 51

Tags:

Police, Books, Career, Detectives, Feedback, History, Podcasting, Promotions, Retirement, Television, Kansas City, London, Overland Park, Spring Hill, Kansas, England, UK

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome to Hey Chaplin. My name is Jared Altic and I'm a chaplain with the police department. Hey Chaplin is the Police Wellness Podcast, and we cover the best topics about career, health, and family so that you can be healthier. This episode marks our fifth anniversary, and this is where we go back and do follow-ups and business checks, checking in on some of our past guests to get updates on what they've been doing. This year I built the episode around an interview I recently had with Steve Keogh. Steve is the retired Scotland Yard murder detective who was on the show a couple times a few years back. When I say that the guests of Hey Chaplin extend from LAPD to Scotland Yard, Steve is the original Scotland Yard component. Let's catch up with what Steve has been doing. Here's Stephen Keogh. Hello, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

How are you today? Jared, yeah, I'm good. Thank you very much for having me back on. It's been two or three years, I think, isn't it? It's been a while.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Yeah, yes, it has. Yes, it has. It's been it's been a while. But uh, I'm eager to find out what you've been up to. First, let me ask, uh, kind of for a quick recap, uh, tell me about your law enforcement career, uh, what you've done, uh, just a few a few notes like that, so people who don't remember can kind of place who you are and what you've done.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Yeah, so I was I did 30 years with the Met Police in London. Um most of that as a detective. I spent the last 12 years in homicide, and we get classed as Scotland Yard detectives, even though we don't work out of Scotland Yard anymore. Um and yeah, since since leaving, I think I can't remember what our first interview was about, if I'm honest. I know the second one was about Jack the Ripper.

unknown 1:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

So I've written the first one might have been about some of the anti-terrorism stuff. I'd have to actually have to go back in my notes and look.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

I mean, that would have been that would have been about four years ago, wouldn't it? That one. So yeah, so yes, so yeah, so that's me. He's career career detective basically in London, um, and since leaving written a couple of books and and done some other projects which I'll talk about today.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

The the Jack the Ripper stuff was very well received. People talk to me about that all the time. I get messages all the time about your your Jack the Ripper stuff. They've read your book and and they appreciate the very grounded, you know, hey, this is just an analytical look at Jack the Ripper. Now, I do want to know how was that book received? Because a lot of Jack the Ripper fans don't want a grounded, practical, analytical look. They want you to tell them that it was a member of the royal family, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, it would be funny, funny you should say that. So so you know the style I wrote where I used rather than just regurgitate a load of facts, which every book I've read on Jack the Ripper just was the same facts, just maybe in a different order and a different slant. I decided I'd make it a bit more accessible to people that wouldn't normally read Jack the Ripper. So I I used that narrative style where I introduced the witnesses as characters and told it from their point of view, which the die hard Jack the Ripper fans hated because they as far as they were concerned, I was taking liberties, I was putting words in people's mouths. But I wasn't I wasn't all right, I was I was put I was putting words in their mouths in terms of some of some of what came out of their mouth would would have been it was obviously made up, but it was based on their evidence. So I wasn't making things up, I was just trying to bring them to life. Yeah, and which which you did that really well.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

If someone hasn't read your book yet, i i it is very well written. You would think that you had been a lifelong fiction author because because you wrote it really well.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

It it's good. Thank you. Yeah, so so that that's what I want. I went I didn't want it just to be a dry book of facts, especially when I'm getting analytic analytical myself. It's like, well, it's it's gotta have some bit of life to it, and though and that's how I decided to do it. And I don't regret that at all, but the but I got invited to um every year they have a conference uh in in East London, and it's the real Jack the Ripper um enthusiasts, and they invited me to come along and do a talk, and I was debating should I do it or not. I felt like I was gonna go into the lions then. But I went, but I went and I decided I was what the angle that I was going to talk about was from my perspective of a detective, why he committed the murders that he did and what was motivating him, what was driving him to kill. And I I did it and I went in and I gave my point of view in terms of what crimes I think he committed, that kind of thing. And I was I was expecting to be sort of have things thrown at me. But the feedback was amazing. Some some real sort of heavy hitters in the Jack the Ripple world. Some and and I I hate talking like like this, but they came up to me afterwards and they said it was one of, if not the best talk they've ever had there. Oh good. I was like I was like, that's amazing, thank you. Because I really did think I was coming here to get booed. Because you say I was coming here, I was coming here from a few different ways.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

I I read I read some of the online comments on your book. Uh Amazon or oh, brutal, brutal, they were so mad at you, but but I think you treated it right, and I think you treated it with respect to the victims, to the facts of the case. That's why I liked your book. Yeah, and I I remember reading it late at night. You sent me an electronic copy, and I was reading it on my phone at one or two o'clock in the morning because I couldn't stop reading it. Amazing. And I'm not a Jack the Ripper enthusiast, I'm not a true crime guy, but it was well written, and I enjoyed it, and I thought, oh, this is great, but I can also tell I'm the ideal audience for this book and the Jack the Ripper fandom may not be.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

100% Sherry, when you write a book, you can't write a book to please everybody. You you you you you get told to pick an avatar, pick a person who you're writing a book for. And I was writing it for you. I was writing for two people I was, I was writing for people that wouldn't normally pick up a Jack and the Ripper book, and if they did, they would probably turn off after a few pages because it literally is just a list of facts. And I didn't want that. And okay, yeah, so the the riperologists didn't appreciate that. But the ones I spoke to there said once they got past that, the things I wrote about, they said was was really good. They but they really appreciated it, but they couldn't get over the narrative style, which I but I said to them, look, without wishing to be rude, I wasn't writing it for you. Um yeah, yeah, and it's just what it is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 7:03

I want to take a moment and say thank you to all of my guests over the last five years, especially some of the local cops and chaplains who not only have bent over backwards to help me produce content by being on the show themselves, but they've helped me track down leads on all of these far-flung guests. I believe that I have about 130 guests who have done long form interviews. However, I've got another few dozen who have done short promotional spots or they've contributed to compilation episodes. So there's somewhere around 150 people who have participated in this show, and frankly, it's easy to lose track. When I only had a few dozen guests to keep track of, I would call them or email them or text them fairly regularly, and that has dropped off. It's there's just too many people now. But I do keep a list, and whenever I hear news, I keep track of promotions and that kind of a thing, which I'd like to share a few of those with you now. First off, friend of the show, Jim Sutterby, who appeared early on in episodes three and seven and helped me out by making appearances multiple other times. He is now the new police chief in Spring Hill, Kansas. Congratulations, Jim. It's extremely well deserved. I had the pleasure of attending a promotion ceremony at the Overland Park Police Department in Overland Park, Kansas, not too far from where I live. And there we saw two guests get promoted on the same day. First of all, Captain Richard Brashears became Major Richard Brashears. He was in episode 101. And then friend of the show, Ryan Miller, who has made appearances as a captain and a major, is now Lieutenant Colonel, a deputy chief there at that second level of command of the Overland Park Police Department. Deputy Chief Miller has made multiple appearances: episode 23, episode 56, episode 97, and several others. Congratulations to both of those guys. And also congratulations to Captain Sean McGee, who is now Major Sean McGee. He was in episode 69. And just recently, at the time of this recording, I was paged out to a homicide scene. And when I arrived, it was Major McGee who was the commander in charge. Now I'm going to switch gears just a little bit. I want to show you an excerpt from a very recent interview. This is from my interview with Jason Marsman from Fellowship for the Fallen. That's bonus episode 50, uh, just here in May of 2026. Sometimes you're in the middle of an episode and you're not sure what that other noise is that you're hearing.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Here's Jason Marsman. In comparison to Chicago, we're now in comparison to New York. Just a second. Is your dog snorting? Yeah, she's crawling. She's such a dope. I'm gonna send her out of the room again. We're doing a lot of work on the house, so some things are falling by the wayside. One of them is the door doesn't close all the way, so she pushes it open with her nose and then comes in.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Alright, go back, go back to that's it's funny. I'm listening, I'm like, what am I hearing? So then she just lays there and growls at the leaves going by, you know. No, that's fine, that's fine, that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Dogs are often the source of extraneous noises. I hope it was snoring or growling. Sometimes I wonder, but I wanted to make sure I kept that particular clip to play in this episode. Let's run through our top ten countries. Of course, the United States, far and away, with about 90% of my downloads. But then after the US, we have Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, Ireland, South Africa, Mexico, New Zealand, and then Spain rounds out the top ten. The top ten cities are St. Louis, Missouri, Chicago, Illinois, Dallas, Texas, Denver, Colorado, Charlotte, North Carolina, Phoenix, Arizona, Los Angeles, California, Indianapolis, Indiana, Columbus, Ohio, new to the top ten, and Melbourne, Australia, just barely edging out Houston, Texas. I want to encourage you to look at the show notes of the show. Now, sometimes it's a little bit difficult. You might have to go into a sub-menu depending on which app you're using. Sometimes it's called the show notes, sometimes it's called the episode description. But either way, these are the written notes that accompany each episode. When you go to that, you're going to find a link that says that you can text the show or leave a voicemail. That voicemail feature is new. It's limited in how much time. I'm not sure what the quality is always going to be. And I can't guarantee that if you leave a voicemail, that I can actually use it in a future episode, but there is that possibility. So if you have a question for the show, if you have a request, if you have a comment that you'd like to leave, you can write out that text message, or you can even leave a voicemail, and I'm eager to hear what you have to say. Now, let's return to that interview with Steven Keogh. So tell me what your career path has led to. You know, you're retired, you are working with publishing companies and television producers and that kind of thing. Tell me what you've been doing the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Oh, mate. I mean, honestly, if you if you had said to me when I retired that this is what I was going to be doing, I'd have I'd have said you were mad. I'd like none of it is planned. So when I when I was coming towards the end of my career, I knew I wanted to do something a little bit different. I didn't want to just go from one job to another. I I think a lot of your listeners will appreciate this when I describe in my career, every time I looked up in terms of the people that were supervising me, more often than not, I'd look up and I would just be like, You just don't know what you're doing. You don't know what you're talking about. You're in charge of me and you haven't got a clue. And it just used to drive me mad. It's one of the most biggest, it was probably the biggest frustration in my career. Is every time I looked up, I I I not every time, but virtually every time I looked up, I had very little respect really for the people above me because of the way they got there, the way they acted when they were there. And I just didn't want to work for anybody again. That's that was my drive. So I was like, well, what what am I going to do when I leave the police in order to earn? I don't I'm I'm I've got my pension, so I don't need to get a big career afterwards. I just need something as a bit of a top-up, essentially. So I was like, well, what is it that I did in my career that I could take outside that would be sellable, essentially? And every time I was reading about you go on forums, you go to Facebook and whatnot, you and they always talk about these transferable skills that the cops have got. And as if like it's it it they're the type of skills that virtually nobody outside has if you c if you collect them all together, because if you if you spend time on the police, you deal with stuff that most members of the public wouldn't have a clue and they would run away, not and not not go towards it type thing. So I was like, Well, I want to do something where I'm not rather than me trying to fit in with what you're doing, what about if I come to you and I say, I'm good at this, would you like to learn it from me? So that was that was my idea when I come out. And and for me, my my number one thing I enjoyed the most, and I think I was I was best at was decision making, especially those decisions that you're making under pressure, where you've you're having to make it in a short amount of time, you've got limited information, you know the consequences are bad if you get it wrong. So that that was what I wanted to do. So that was my goal when I came out. I'm gonna go into companies, I'm gonna train them uh in how I make decisions and try and teach it in a way that they could take it away and and use it themselves. And everything I I read said if you want to position yourself as an expert, write a book. So that's what I decided to do. I decided to write a book. This this is how we investigate murders, and this is how the lessons from that can benefit you in business and personal life and whatever. But when I started to write it, it was it didn't work. It was like it was two different books. It was like this is how we investigate murders, and these are the skills from it. It wasn't quite working. So I thought, well, what I'll do, I'll write a book first about how we investigate murders, and then a follow-up of how that those lessons can work in business, etc. And so that was a very different book to what I was originally writing. So mine's gonna be the idea, was it was if I talk about avatars, I was aiming it at sort of junior managers, senior managers, whatever, someone who's having to make decisions, and there are consequences for the decisions they make. Now I'm writing a book about how we investigate murders. It's like, oh, that's very different, isn't it? I was like, well, so what I did, I went on a couple of Facebook groups, one in America and one in the UK. I said, This is me, I'm writing a book about how murder's investigated. What would you like to know? This is just true crime facts. So I put up a SurveyMonkey. Um and I do actually, if you ever use Survey Monkey, be careful because if you get loads of responses, it becomes very expensive to get them back. I realized that. 600 responses I got, and I was like, it was amazing, and it basically formed the basis of what my book was going to be. Because it's I if I'm writing it to you and you're telling me what you want to know, it made it made it very easy for me to to structure the book. Yeah, then that opened uh an avenue that I really wasn't uh expecting or particularly wanted. So in order to promote the book, I went to this uh PR company and they they they weren't particularly good, they were just basically had a list of emails and just spammed people. I think we've got released this book. But they they sent this email to this um daytime TV show in the UK, it's one of the biggest in the UK, and I got an invite to go on there and and talk about the book. And honestly, Jared, if you if you know about sliding door moments, this was the moment for me where I I can see everything changed from there. Because I went I went on this program, it was a bit nerve-wracking because it's live and it's like I I know it's probably not a big number in America, but in the UK, it's a million people watching it. So you you got this you got this pressure, and I and I I got the usual got messages from ex-colleagues taking the Mickey out of me and all that kind of stuff. But in a in amongst all the Mickey taking, I got um I got an email from a publisher's because I'd self-published this book, because I did it myself through Amazon and whatnot, they said we'd like to buy the rights for it. And so I had a meeting with them and they decided to buy the rights. Then they said, Would you like to write any other books? You got anything else in your mind? And that's when I had the Jack the Ripper in my mind. So they then they uh they we agreed a publishing deal for the Jack the Ripper book. So that that happened. Then this this I don't know if you you have it in America, and most of your uh listeners probably uh wouldn't be aware of this thing, but it's called Crime Con. It's like a conference for true crime fans, and and they have it here in the UK, and they invited me along because they saw me on this TV program. And I did a I did two or three of them for them, and then I think the second one I was I was talking as I was talking, I I was on stage with loads of sort of these heavy hitters from the true crime world, and I felt I had a bit of imposter syndromes. It's like everybody here knows these people, they ain't got a clue who I am. So I said, right, so I decided to talk about my book a bit so that they could see that I not only was I was I a carp, actually, I've done something since. And it was this woman in the front row who's giving me these weird looks. And I went outside and she walked up to me and I thought, oh, she's gonna be a nutter or something, isn't she? And she got to me and she she introduced herself, and she basically was the top poncho in in a TV uh channel. Uh AMC. So the AMC in the UK is a is a spin-off from ANC in in America. And she said, when you were describing your book, it sounded to me like it could lend itself to a TV series. Um do you want would maybe we could meet up and have a coffee? And you know when people say that and you just think, okay, yeah, I'll say alright, whatever. And she she contacted me and we did. We went out, we actually went out for a a drink, uh a couple of wines. And yeah, she wanted to make a TV show, so we ended up having a few um production companies pitch in what their ideas around it and what they would do. And yeah, we ended up making this TV series. We've we've we've made uh three seasons, although it was squeezed into two, so we've made 30 episodes. It's called Secrets of a Murder Detective, and it's on it's on Amazon and Apple TV and and and sort of channels here in the UK. And yeah, and it it's just I I I can't really get my head around it to be honest. I've got a face for radio, I haven't got a face for TV. Um but it's a real but I really enjoy it. So it's the the premise of the show is I sit down with a detective and we talk about a case from their career, and in in the background that they the the TV company tell the story of the murder, whilst I sit down and talk about detectives trying to get behind the scenes and the pressures and and sort of a peer-to-peer. So it's a conversation that they wouldn't normally have because I understand I've been in their shoes. Yeah, that's been well received. Uh third season's just finished airing over here. Um, and yeah, and I've just stopped just finished filming a TV programme about Jack the Ripper as well. So that that that's going to come out in the UK later this year. So none of these things I had planned. Um, but in the background, I've I've now got back into because I kept getting distracted by the TV and whatnot. I've now started doing um public speaking and training in companies around decision making, which is what I've always wanted to do. Plan A. Yeah. Plan A, yeah. I've taken a roundabout roundabout route to get here. Um, but yeah, let's say the week before last, I just I was I gave a talk at um Google HQ in in London, and that that that went down really well. So I'm that's what I'm most passionate about. I don't I do TV, but I don't I don't get that that sort of satisfaction from it. I really do get satisfaction from standing up and doing what I really what what I'm passionate about, which is that sharing the knowledge that I built up in mode investigation, and and I what I've done is I've I've Basically, I sat down and it's like, well I I would turn up to crime scenes and it would generally be real chaos. And it would be me that would come in, sort of bring order to that chaos. It was my job to to take over that scene and make sure everything that was needed to be done was done. I sat down and I was like, well, well, what was going through my mind? What what was my thought process that allowed me to do that in a way that was was successful? And I and I but I sort of, you know, it was one of those light bulb moments, it suddenly hit me, and I and I and I've now got this way that I teach people how to make decisions, which is really, really simple, but really, really effective, and it mirrored what what I did. Um and I really enjoyed delivering that. So yeah, so that's now that's what I really am hoping is going to um gain a bit of momentum.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

So, how far into the TV work were you before you looked yourself up on IMDb?

SPEAKER_00 22:57

I it was if I'm honest, it's only recently I didn't I didn't realize I had an IMDB.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Well, good for you, because a lot of people, the very first job they have, they want to go look if they have an IMDB you know profile yet. And so that's good for you for for holding out longer than most of us would have.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Somebody said to me, if you if you Googled yourself, I said no, so I'll Google myself and it comes up as TV personality. That's just not true.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

That's funny. We had a uh television crew, a documentary crew from the UK here at our uh uh police department. Uh this is maybe five or six years ago, and they filmed several murder scenes and that kind of thing, and I was on scene for some of those. Uh I actually had a sit-down interview with them and and and I was on scene. I knew I knew I had one time where we were we were there for like six or seven hours, and I knew I was on camera. I mean, I knew hours and hours of footage of me walking around. Well, that episode came out a few years later, and I sat down, like you get the kids and the wife to say, okay, this is this is it, this is it. And sure enough, one half second scene, I am you can see I was wearing an orange color shirt, and you can see me walking behind a car, and that's it. That's the whole thing. That was that everything, everything else was cut, and so I am basically not there at all. And I'm like, wow, okay, so no IMDB profile for me. So yeah. It's time, there's time, mate. That's right. Where can people find your books, your TV shows, and in your speaking engagements? Let's get people away to find you.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

But you know what? I don't know whether there's sort of um geolocation issues. I don't know, because it's on Apple TV and Amazon, which obviously is well white, but I don't know whether it's locked in into that.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Do you know if the titles are the same from one region to the next? Because sometimes titles change. I think it's an enemy hard to find the show.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Secrets of a murder detective, yeah. I think I think it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Secrets of a murder detective.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Steve, or probably Steven.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Steve Keogh. No, you know, I don't know I've got I've got this dual personality. For my books, I'm Stephen Keogh. For TV and everything else, I'm Steve Keo. Now I don't know why I've landed on that. Steve Keogh, K-E-A-E-O-G-A. Yeah, I've got a website, Steve Keo.com, so everything everything's out there. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

And uh uh the books are on the website too.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Uh yeah, but they're on Amazon, so you can get them on there. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Well, that's fantastic. Steve, God bless you. I'm happy for your success. I'm happy people are using you because frankly, there are lesser men who could be out there making TV shows, and I'm glad it's you and not there's that's one of the nicest things anyone's ever said.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

We spent years in training fighting battles up hill when care is heavy and getting heavy still. Never too hard to find, you know the places that I like to hide, and we'll go there side by side you and I our footsteps in perfect strike.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

I want to thank Steve Keo for being on the show. You'll hear more from him in future detective compilation episodes. And then I also want to thank everybody for listening to the show. I have been able to maintain my production of episodes once a week. The main episodes are on the first, third, and fifth Monday, and then I do part two episodes or bonus episodes in between on the second and fourth Mondays. And I've been able to maintain that schedule because I work ahead. Often I'm a month or two or three ahead of when I actually have to publish an episode. And that schedule was put to the test because we had some family things going on that made it very difficult to do anything extra. And so basically, I was able to produce the interviews and everything else had to go on hibernation mode. If it seems that I've been on social media less and kept up with correspondence less, that is accurate. All of that stuff had to be dialed back and just the bare bones, what does it take to keep producing episodes? That represented all of the effort that I was able to put into the show. And I'm very happy that I was able to keep up with the production schedule. It's times of testing like this that show where there's parts of the workflow that are superfluous that you don't absolutely have to do. For instance, the show kept growing even though I wasn't really producing anything on social media for quite some time. But I am back now and I am very happy to be producing the Hey Chaplin podcast. I hope that I'm able to do it for years and years to come. If you want to help this show reach more cops, chaplains, and other first responders around the world, please follow the link in the episode description to support the show. Remember that the views expressed here are the personal views of the hosts and our guests, and do not necessarily represent the views of any law enforcement agency or its components. If you like this episode, please share it with a cop or someone who loves a cop. Thank you for listening to Hey Chaplin. And as always, let's pray for peace in our cities.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

We spent years in training, fighting battles of hill when care is heavy and getting heavy still.