149 - Murder Blueprint: Gary Jenkins (Gangland Wire)

Today I have something special for you, we're bringing back retired police detective Gary Jenkins, the host of the Gangland Wire podcast.  Gary was an early and eager supporter of Hey Chaplain, so when I saw that Gary has started a second podcast, called "Murder Blueprint," I wanted to make sure the Hey Chaplain audience knew about it.  We talk about organized crime, serial killers, why different audiences like different categories of true crime, and what it's like to be true crime podcaster.

Music is by DJ Williams

The Hey Chaplain podcast Episode 149

Tags:

Podcasting, Documentaries, Gambling, Gangs, Interests, Interviews, Investigations, Mafia, Mobsters, Murder, Organized Crime, Serial Killers, Kansas City, Kansas, Missouri

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the Chaplain's Daughter. Thank you for listening to the Hey Chaplin Podcast. Your support of the show means so much to our family. Thank you for leaving a five-star rating and a written review. It really helps us out.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Welcome to Hey Chaplain. My name is Jared Altic, and I'm a chaplain with the police department. The purpose of the Hey Chaplin podcast is to bring real life stories and hard-earned wisdom to the law enforcement community. From the LAPD to Scotland Yard and sometimes from my hometown of Kansas City, the guests on Hey Chaplin are bringing you what you need to know so that you don't have to learn everything the hard way. And as a police chaplain myself, I want you to hear something positive and encouraging. Today I have something special for you. We're bringing back retired police detective Gary Jenkins, the host of the Gangland Wire podcast. Gary was an early and eager supporter of Hey Chaplin. So when I saw that Gary had started a second podcast called Murder Blueprint, I wanted to make sure that the Hey Chaplin audience knew about it. In this conversation, we talk about organized crime, serial killers, why different audiences like different categories of true crime, and what is it like to be a true crime podcaster. From the Gangland Wire podcast and the Murder Blueprint podcast, here's Gary Jenkins. Hello, Gary. How are you today?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

I'm great, Jared. Great to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Well, I'm glad you could drive over and visit. It's nice to see another Kansas City podcaster. Yeah. And so for those who who don't remember Gary Jenkins, Gary is the host, long time you said 10 plus years of The Gangland Wire. And it's a podcast that I was listening to before I started Hey Chaplin. He's a Kansas City, Missouri cop. I'm on the Kansas City, Kansas side, but I'm like, here's a local guy who's who's doing really well, making a great show that my cops listen to. And I'm like, I've I've got to connect with this guy. And Gary, from the get-go, you were supportive of me doing my show. And I I want to tell you thank you. I I I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Well, you're mighty welcome, Jared. I mean, I I like listening to your show, and and I just thought what what you're doing is important. We were just talking about what you do over at KCK, and I think it's hugely important. You really provide a great service, both for the guys and the citizens, and all for free, too, by the way, taxpayers.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yes, yes. Yeah, we're everybody's out there. I think we had a detective on a scene last night, like, well, at least I'm getting overtime for this. I'm like, don't rub it in. Don't rub it in out here for free. Yeah. But podcasts can kind of kind of be that way too. Yeah. Uh whether you run commercials on your show or not, uh, nobody's very few are getting rich being a being a podcaster.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

No, I've got commercials, but I'm glad I don't have to depend on this for a living. I got my pension coming in. Tell me, how did you get started on Ganglin Wire? Late in my life, yeah. Well, I practiced law for about 10 years or so, and I was kind of winding down from that. I I never really liked practicing law, to be honest. I mean, it's good money, traffic tickets are quick money and good money and that kind of thing. And and helping families out with estate plans. I I did a lot, a lot of cops and and their families and helping them out with estate plans. Did a few police divorces, which I swore finally I'll never do this again. But you know, when you know both parties, like, oh man, it just gets dicey. Anyhow, so I was winding down and I just I had this idea about doing a documentary. Um and and so I, you know, started looking online and going to YouTube and researching how you do that. And the ball with digitalization of video and audio and and all the creative mechanisms that we have, the bar's pretty low. You don't have to I don't have to go out and buy a $40,000 camera. I don't have to have a big production crew. Right. Uh you know, I can get it all for you know a thousand bucks or so. And so I bought a camera and did a couple three documentaries and I and I did a couple about Civil War events, and then I did the one that I wanted to do, which was called Gangland Wire, which is kind of the the root of everything I do is Gangland Wire nowadays. And Gangland Wire was about the skimming from Las Vegas, which was the opposite end of what they tell in the movie casino. We did we started in Kansas City. Now I didn't, but Bill Owsley was the FBI, got that first microphone hidden in the Villa Capri. We were there to help them all along and did a lot of surveillance for them. But they they're the ones that planted that microphone and overheard this talk about skimming from Las Vegas, which spun off into Chicago, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and taking down Lefty Rosenthal or Ace Rostrein for you guys who like uh casino and uh and did all that. It started right here. They barely mentioned Kansas City, and they did, they got it wrong. But that's that's typical of Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Well, Kansas City doesn't get the respect it deserves.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

We don't we get no respect. So then I I liked us making documentary films. I like it. I had a little bit of success with that. I got a two or three three-week run run at uh one of the local theaters. Uh of course I'm not a big company that they have to play my stuff, but a guy down to uh it was called the Crown Center uh theater. They used to have uh four screens down there. And and then, you know, he put me in IMDB and it's a legitimate theater. And yeah, so I I I had a three-week run down there and people liked it, you know. I went to a lot of the screenings and answered questions afterwards, and it was always a lot of people there. They were getting down after three weeks of the same movie. But but anyhow, so I I like that and I like success. And then and and I wanted to be a you know, I wanted to be a movie star. Come on, man. Who doesn't want to be a movie star? So my next one had to be the other part of that story. During that same time, we had a mob war in Kansas City between the Savela Brothers and the Upstart Young Turk Spiro Brothers, and we, my squad of the intelligence unit, was right in the middle of that. We were trying to catch people killing each other for about a year there. Yeah. And so I had a lot of experiences from that, knew a lot of people involved in that. So we told that story called Brothers Against Brothers, the Sevella Spiro War. Um since then, it's like, I don't know. I've I think I probably had a little more time on my hands after I got done with that movie. So I was listening to a podcast early in this was early in the podcast, yeah, and there was one called Serial, which was immensely popular, and really the first one that that I think got podcasting out in the general greater community.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

The regular person knew about podcasting when serial happened.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

For several years before that, the geeks were really into this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Yeah, well, I'm a talk radio guy. I was listening to podcasts like 25 years ago. And it was like like a like a 10 minutes to download one little episode and whatever. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

So, you know, again, the digitalization of all this stuff is you know, is it's made it easier and easier. And now there's a a market, uh, uh platform that you can get out there for free. Yes. Basically, you might have to pay, I had to pay Blueberry when I started like $15 a month or something to host my podcast. And but uh and already had all the equipment, recording equipment from doing the movie work or the documentary work. So I started Gangland War and started telling, you know, the stories of the Kansas City mob, and that ran out pretty quick. You know, when you're doing one a week, oh yeah, you ran out of stories of the Kansas City mob yes, in about three weeks' time.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

So then I spent out into other mafia stories across the United States and start learning about them. And there's bo I'd buy books, authors would get hold of me after a while after I got a little bit of a following and got to be known in that community. Authors would get a hold of me, and I do a lot of that now is interviewing authors who have written books. Yeah. But at the time I was just buying books and then going through and making notes and then telling, tell them the story out of that book, which is a little bit laborious, but it's uh, you know, it's done then. Sometimes you can find a whole lot online. That's a little easier to research it online rather than read the whole hard copy book, but I still do that once in a while. You really get the good stories from the hard copy book.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah. So you've had you've had authors on, you've had law enforcement on, but you've also had people who've been in organized crime.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Gangsters on. Reformed gangsters. I just I just talked to one the other day. I'm gonna do a I'm gonna do a live podcast in Las Vegas for a convention out there. This guy got hold of me and asked me if I'd do it, and and I had another reason to be out there, and I'm I don't gamble, but I I didn't want to meet with a guy at the mob museum, and and I so I said, Yeah, I'll come out and do it. So in order to prepare for that, he wants me to talk about sports gambling before the apps. Ah, okay. And so I got hold of this Genov former Genevese guy, Chicky Chicatelli, great name, uh, little mafia name, from Springfield, Massachusetts, and he worked for a guy named Al Bruno who was uh uh got the wrong end of a hit several years ago. And and Chicky has done a little time, came back out, did a little more time, and and sometime in during that doing time, he saw the light and he said, you know, I'm just not doing this anymore. I can't do this anymore. And he hadn't written a book or he didn't wasn't really promoting anything uh other than himself a little bit, I guess. And he's a real colorful guy. So I got him to record with me. As a matter of fact, that one's gonna come out. When this comes out, that one will just be out. Uh anyway, with Chucky Chicatelli. So, you know, listen to that. That guy's a character. So I learned all about sports gambling. So I can that's my that was my research for uh doing that one. So it's uh, you know, it's a great I mean I connect with people all over the United States, with interesting people and uh now now you were saying that your demographics are a little different than most true crime.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

A lot of true crime you have mostly women listen, but you actually draw more men. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Well, you know, I ask a podcast consultant about that. You know, I don't stand still. I paid a consultant and I've gone to podcast uh talks by experts and all that, and and so I asked this guy about it because I know that all my female relatives, they don't like my podcast. They like me, but they don't like my podcast. But they do like the horror crime podcasts, the serial killers, uh kidnappers, and all that kind of stuff, and and spree killers and mass murders and all that. They like that. And so I asked this guy, I said, Why is that? My demographic is about 80% men, according to YouTube, and that's pretty accurate. Yeah. 80-85% men are.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

And true crime is often 80% women, right.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

And and the regular true crime, the horror crime, I call it, is uh 80% women. And this guy said, Yeah, he knew that, and he said the only explanation he had is men like organized violence and women like unorganized violence.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

There may be something to that, really.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

But as we we were talking a minute ago, Jared, and and he he echoed that same thought that women listen to these shows because women are more likely to be the victims of these horror crimes more than men. Yeah, they're more they're easier to victimize because of the upper lack of upper upper body strength. And and so they want to listen to this to find out how these guys work so they can stay better prepared and maybe survive a little better.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, it's survival rehearsal. Yeah. And there's I've heard a couple different terms for it, but survival rehearsal. Here's how a serial killer got somebody else. I'm gonna listen to that story, and psychologically that's scratching that itch that now I know how to escape that one. And so, so yeah, I think I think that does appeal to women, but it's but it's interesting because I've listened to your show for years, and and I'm not doing the survival rehearsal thing. I'm just interested that these organized groups of gangsters got away with things as long as they did, and I just keep eating it up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Well, that's uh a lot of people do, and I'm thankful for that. I always found it interesting, you know. I I find organized crime interesting. I don't even know if other people think about it like this, but what I've seen is in organized when it's really truly organized, it's it's more business crime many times, more white-collar crime. Yeah. But they had these men that run these things, and and in their home life, they'll always have a wife, long-term wife, family. They'll go to little league games, they'll go see their kids play football in St. Pius. You and Kansas City know what I'm talking about. Yeah. And and they have this regular life. Uh but then and family, big family gr get togethers and eat together on Sunday afternoon, you're watching Sopranos. That's a perfect example.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

That's and but yet on the other hand, they leave home, they leave the suburban neighborhood usually, and they go over to s the city to their as Tony Soprano does, his bada bing, and and he's a gangster, or whatever business he's maybe honor horning in on and trying to take away from somebody or or giving orders to have somebody beat up or killed or whatever. So they have this dual life. It's I mean, it's just like, man.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yeah. Well, and that's not sustainable. And I think I watch it, I I think I watch that you know, mafia type genre movies, both fiction and nonfiction, listen to your show, uh, consume other uh media like that, because I also feel like it's a ticking time bomb. You can only keep up the lies for so long, the double life, whatever it is, you can only do that for so long. And so I I know that's gonna come crashing down, and I feel like that's part of the interest that I have is you know, how long can a liar keep lying? You know, and so so I'm looking for that reason, amongst many others. Yeah. But uh the reason I had you come in today is because you've started another show, another podcast, kind of under the larger umbrella of Gangland Wire. It's called Murder Blueprint. So tell me about this new show.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

This new show is gonna be more about the other kinds of crime that we're gonna appeal to women. So only you men out here tell your wives, your girlfriends, and your sisters and daughters.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Husbands listen to Gangland Wire, the wife's listening to murder blueprints. That's what's gonna happen. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

I have uh I have a daughter and a granddaughter that love true crime podcasts, but they listen to the murder things and uh they never listen to me.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

But they may listen to this show. But they'll listen to this show. There's just a few episodes out. Right. And and you were like your first guest, you drew from connections that you had. And you're I mean, you had a guest that is probably not gonna ever do a different podcast. No.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I I'll tell you right now, and and guys, it was uh a good friend of mine and retirees, still around, haven't seen him for a while for about a year or so, was Troy Cole, and he was the sergeant, he was a sergeant in the Crimes Against Persons Unit back in 1980, whatever that uh Bob Berdella. And if you guys are from Kansas City, almost everybody knows the word, is the name Bob Berdella. He was in sergeant in charge of homicide or one of the homicide squads. And when those cases, when that case came in, while he got the job of overseeing a special task force that actually had to move out of headquarters and move into another building because everybody wanted to come around and poke their nose in because it was so titillating, it was so horrible. And so I I was able to get Troy because I promise you, any of you podcasters listening out there think you want to interview him, he won't go. He will not go. He he said the only reason I'm doing this is because we're friends, Gary. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, you've got but you've got experience because you're not just a podcaster. You you had a career in law enforcement and in the law. You have these connections, you have people, and not that every episode of Murder Blueprint will be one of your old friends, but you do have a lot of connections.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I do, I do nationwide now with authors and and publicists that that promote books for authors, and so I've got those connections and a pretty pretty big footprint in the uh true crime world. So I think I'll be able to get a lot more guests like that. Um uh I've got a couple other old friends and a couple three weeks after the Burdella story, uh gonna talk about Richard Grissom and uh any especially anybody from Johnson County will remember Richard Grissom. He uh captured up and and must have murdered because they never never seen again, three young women. It was kind of a I I don't know, he was kind of a romance murderer. Uh he was a good looking guy and he went to the clubs and he and he was charming, but he kidnapped these three young women who were single and were hitting those same clubs and probably got to know him through that. Um and and you know, they were never found again. Best they could say is they got a picture of the ATM machine, got a picture of the ATM ATM machine of her withdrawing money looking all haggard, and there was some man sitting in the passenger seat. So that's and never found their bodies either. I probably shouldn't give away the ending, but that's okay. And I I've got the two guys, one's from Linux, and Linux a copper named Joe Langer and Tommy Robinson from Kansas City, and and they were instrumental in uh developing that case and then actually arrested him down in uh Texas. They trailed him down to Texas, so it's it's a hell of a story.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

The Wichita detective that handcuffed the BTK killer is a friend of mine, he's a fellow chaplain. Oh yeah. And uh he's up here in Kansas City, so I'll make I'll make sure that if you if you want to have that on your schedule in the future, I'll make sure that you can connect with him.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

I kind of do one story to the next, I've been working like crazy.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

It's hard to schedule out for a podcast because even people who are agreeable, yeah, they they have to cancel last minute or or something that slows it down. And so so you always kind of have to be juggling multiple leads. Yeah. And I find that I find that challenging.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I I try to stay about three to four weeks ahead scheduled if I can. I don't didn't always able to.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

If I'm doing great, I've got maybe two months. Yeah, or maybe three months, you know, and then then I'm way really comfortable. I can go on vacation or whatever, but inevitably that gets used up so fast. And now it's like okay, I need something next week. And that's that makes me feel panicky inside. I don't know, I don't enjoy that at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

So I really like telling that from the law enforcement standpoint, uh particularly could uh lead people through that investigation. This is what it takes. This is you know, these are the goes down these paths that don't pan out, and then you gotta go back and and because I went through plenty of myself, and I've got a couple of my own stories of you know how you go down a path, and somebody I had a false confession once, and I mean I this guy was believable. I was I was down that path of a false confession. Luckily, an older another detective came in and and I asked his advice on it, and he came in and asked about three quick questions and came out in the called me out in the hallway, said he didn't do it. Oh wow. I said, How you know? And he told me why he knew. Yeah. We saved that for the podcast, but yeah, but it was like, oh man, I missed that one. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Well, I I so appreciate the work you do in podcasting. I'm excited about this new series. I'm definitely gonna keep following that, but I'm still gonna listen to Gangoland Wire because uh, like I said, that has intrigued me since before I started. When I was first you know working on starting a podcast, had not published a single episode. But I I spent about a year putting Hey Chaplin together and figuring out, okay, like what are what are the guardrails that are you know I'm gonna w operate within, you know, and and and what do I want the show to be? And I was talking to people about it, and and I had a cop, uh KCK cop on midnight say, Well, I listen to podcasts all the time. I was like, Oh, what do you listen to? And he said, Gangland wire. And he goes, It's it's a guy, yeah. He's from Kansas City, and I'm like, he's local, and so that that that's what got me onto your show. It's the first time I ever heard someone mention it was uh was I was at a midnight shift roll call, and one of the officers was like, I listen to that show all the time. Cool, and so so and that was that's been probably seven years ago, maybe eight years ago, and that really energized me. And and when I finally contacted you, you were nothing but supportive. You were not the least bit threatened or like, oh, look, here's someone else trying to podcast. I better shut them down. You know, you were supportive and helpful, and you came on the show, and I just I've really appreciated your support.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

You're welcome. Like I said before, here's what I've learned is a rising tide flifts all boats. Yes, and the podcast business has been a rising tide ever since I started. It just keeps rising and keeps rising.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

And smart, you your show is someone sits down and listens to it, and it's in an hour, it's it's over.

unknown 21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

But if they don't come back to that app for a whole week, they may not come back. Yeah. And so you need to fill in and have them listening to stuff so they're opening that app maybe every day, then it's a habit. And now your show is a habit. Yeah. And that's that's my problem is I have people that are not podcast listeners. They listen to a few episodes, but then they never come back because they don't have a habit of listening. So I'm always like, Hey, here's here's another police wellness type podcast, or here's a True crime podcast, or here's here's something unrelated. Elon Musk launching rockets or something, you know, here's a totally different podcast. And and if I can get people listening and consuming that type of information, then they'll listen to my show regularly as well. Yeah. So what would you like Murder Blueprint to be? Uh, do you want to do that for several years? Are you gonna have just a limited run? What are you aspiring to with Murder Blueprint?

SPEAKER_00 22:28

I think it probably might even outlast Gangland Wire. I don't really know right now. I'm I'm really interested in it because I have all these new stories. Yes. The mob is a little bit a little bit limited. I've talked about a whole lot of things. Um and I'll continue to talk about them, especially as long as I've got authors coming to me with uh material. Um but all these new stories out there and all these different variations, and it's just it's a lot bigger.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah. And you told you said too that Gangland Wire, your audience uh pushes you to stick with the Italian mafia.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Right. They they are uh I can tell by my analytics, nobody ever says anything particularly. Um I think a couple of times people make comments, but YouTube probably they make some crazy comments. Yeah. You get to see those on YouTube. You don't usually see the other ones. Or they're harder to see. But uh, you know, they uh they they really click a lot more and listen a lot more and give me a lot more feedback when it's about the Italian La Cosa Nostra Mafia, and mainly in New York is the most popular, and Chicago is the next most popular.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

So if you do something, if you do the the triad in Asia or the Yakuza in Japan, yeah, Yakuza, right. If you if you do if you're like cartel episodes or the those are not getting the same numbers of clicks, they don't they do not get are not as popular as the La Cosa Nostra Mafia. Yeah. And so and so that definitely keeps you confined to some degree where you called it uh not just true crime, but you called it uh horror crime.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

I call it horror crime. I don't know if that's a right term or not.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Oh, I I like that. I know what it I know what you mean when you say it.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah. You know, and and the thing I also I like heist stories. Yeah, organized heist, and yeah, I like those, and I've done a few of those, and you know, I like them, and but they don't get as many hits as especially not if I have John Gotti's name at the top, but or any something about the New York Mafia, and uh even a minor character in the New York Mafia, because those guys in New York had such a huge population center. Yeah, yeah. And they know their people, they know their names. There's name recognition. And and they'll be commenting like you can't believe about, oh yeah, my so-and-so was over in you know in in Red Hook, and my uncle grew up over there, and he knew this guy, and like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah, you'd love to do some some hijacking a truck in Milwaukee or something like that, but they don't want to hear that because they want they want to hear the New York mafia. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

I I did love I just had a guy on the other day, and he he was the most successful bank robber in the United States, and he's back out now. He and the the agent that traced tracked him down, and he's got a book, and him and the agent are doing podcasts and that kind of thing. And and it's just it was a fascinating story. The people I don't know that they were it was like uh point break. Anybody's ever seen point break. This was this guy, he it wasn't him, but it was a guy he was working with was a real life point break kind of guy, and and it was just wild and crazy. Their last score was about two million dollars out of a bank. They really figured out how to to uh reconnoiter these banks and find out the best times to hit them to get the most money. Yeah, they probably got three or four million dollars over a few years' time out of banks in Seattle area. Wow, it's a hell of a story.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Let me encourage you. Uh, I think all podcasters should do what interests them. Yeah because there's no show if we lose interest. And so when you're doing your own show, you've got to do what interests you. And I think that even for the faithful listener that does like a particular type of episode, you still need to have some variety in there. Uh, because you don't want you don't want to to wear them out on your bread and butter episodes. And so I I appreciate that you throw in some stuff that interests you and you know a little bit of variety. And I love that you're doing the second show, Murder Blueprint. Uh, I think that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Well, good. And I hope a lot of other people do too. I've been marketing like crazy on Facebook. I've I've created some of the other face murder blueprint Facebook page, but uh I haven't really tried to populate it with anything yet. And I created a murder blueprint YouTube channel, but I haven't put anything on it yet. So that's uh I want to get this thing rolling first because those those are a couple other steps on marketing this guys. Let me tell you something. Just because you do a podcast doesn't mean somebody's just gonna say, oh, I'm gonna listen.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

You gotta market, you gotta get out there and let people know. You gotta try to get on other people's podcasts. Yeah, you got to uh to do social media marketing, which you you know you can't afford it unless you got some kind of a budget when you went in this deal, but yeah, means you gotta spend a lot of time on social media, make clips, put them up on YouTube. Um marketing's a big job. Yeah, it is, it's huge. Yeah, yeah. And then trying to get help to marketing. That's one thing. I've got some fans like my Facebook group. We had to turn it private because we got too many scammers on, but we had 60,000 people in it, and and I got three guys that are boy, they are rough, man. If you put any kind of any kind of political stuff on there, if you try to sell anything that, you know, other than maybe uh if you got a mob book or something, uh you know, they ace you. They're they're protective.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah, you know, they're protective of Gangland Wire. It turns out, Gary, you're a made man.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah, yeah. And I have three enforcers out there. If you want to get on my podcast group, great Gangland Wires group, you gotta be either invited in or asked to come in, and then we have to approve you. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

That's right. Well, Gary Jenkins, thank you so much for making Gangland Wire, and I'm excited about this new show, Murder Blueprint. I appreciate the support you've given to Hey Chaplin, and thank you for keeping making good content.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

All right. Well, thank you. And uh Hey Chaplin, I support the work you're doing as we were talking before. It's it's immensely necessary. I think we didn't have this when I was a young policeman at all. And and and partly, you know, dealing with our own emotions around seeing these horrible things that you you you're blessed to see on a daily basis sometimes. And and uh but also the people, you know, you come into these situations and people are distraught, they're out of their mind, and you know, I'm a cop. I mean, I just you know, shut up. I don't I can't I don't I can't say it any plainer than that. I know a lot of you copers out there listening to this know that feeling. You just say, just shut up, you know, I don't have time for you.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

I was I was on a scene yesterday where I think the officers were very happy to turn over the distraught family members to me. Yeah, and uh so yeah, so there's a there's a place for a chaplain to come along and lend a hand. I don't want to be a police officer, but I can help so you can go do your police work. That's right. Well, thank you, Gary.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

You're welcome. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I want to thank Gary for driving over to my office to record with me. It's always a pleasure to get to talk to him, and he's been a bit of a podcast mentor to me. I very much appreciate his support and encouragement. I want to extend a special note of gratitude to the small number of people, both inside law enforcement and outside of law enforcement, who've been giving as little as $5 a month to help pay the expenses of this show. Thank you for helping me on this mission to encourage police officers. The views expressed here are the personal views of the host and our guests, and do not necessarily represent the views of any law enforcement agency or its components. If you like this episode, please share it with a cop or someone who loves a cop. Thank you for listening to Hey Chaplin, and as always, let's pray for peace in our cities.